Comments on: The Postmodern Fascist Movement http://www.durham21.co.uk/2010/02/the-postmodern-fascist-movement/ Thu, 19 Jan 2012 22:35:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Andra http://www.durham21.co.uk/2010/02/the-postmodern-fascist-movement/#comment-55249 Andra Wed, 17 Mar 2010 09:31:11 +0000 http://www.durham21.co.uk/?p=5313#comment-55249 Donnchadh, Your cynical self is an intelligent man. The very existence of the BNP proves that not everyone is as fortunate. They may be representative of a negligible percentage of the population, they may be an anachronism, but they do exist. They have a point of view the majority will dismiss on grounds of common sense, but in many cases this common sense is synonymous with conformity, not much else. Point 1> we are after all far far away in the Northeast of England, which hasn't been ethnically diverse for as long as other parts of the country, and still isn't in the case of certain cities. Point 2> if you intend to debate multiculturalism, what speakers would be more suited to argue the AGAINST case? Point 3> interestingly enough, in the bubble of what many people regard as the white middle class Durham Student community, something has almost taken place. A National Student organization did not shy away from writing a letter littered with threats and almost dragging in coaches full of empty headed activists. Perhaps in the end all that was achieved was a reminder of how, by regarding certain people as somewhat inferior races, the BNP have been designated an inferior race. But this is an interesting area of our present day culture. In Germany Mein Kampf is banned. Not even philosophy scholars or historians can read it in German. They're forced to read it when they travel. How much of what our cynical selves take for granted is common sense and how much is simply good old-fashioned censorship? If the DUS has but posed that question (involuntarily or not), I am prepared to give them some credit. Donnchadh,

Your cynical self is an intelligent man. The very existence of the BNP proves that not everyone is as fortunate. They may be representative of a negligible percentage of the population, they may be an anachronism, but they do exist. They have a point of view the majority will dismiss on grounds of common sense, but in many cases this common sense is synonymous with conformity, not much else.

Point 1> we are after all far far away in the Northeast of England, which hasn’t been ethnically diverse for as long as other parts of the country, and still isn’t in the case of certain cities.

Point 2> if you intend to debate multiculturalism, what speakers would be more suited to argue the AGAINST case?

Point 3> interestingly enough, in the bubble of what many people regard as the white middle class Durham Student community, something has almost taken place. A National Student organization did not shy away from writing a letter littered with threats and almost dragging in coaches full of empty headed activists. Perhaps in the end all that was achieved was a reminder of how, by regarding certain people as somewhat inferior races, the BNP have been designated an inferior race. But this is an interesting area of our present day culture.

In Germany Mein Kampf is banned. Not even philosophy scholars or historians can read it in German. They’re forced to read it when they travel.
How much of what our cynical selves take for granted is common sense and how much is simply good old-fashioned censorship?

If the DUS has but posed that question (involuntarily or not), I am prepared to give them some credit.

]]> By: Ali http://www.durham21.co.uk/2010/02/the-postmodern-fascist-movement/#comment-55147 Ali Sat, 13 Feb 2010 22:13:49 +0000 http://www.durham21.co.uk/?p=5313#comment-55147 The author really has no idea what postmodern means. The author really has no idea what postmodern means.

]]> By: Donnchadh http://www.durham21.co.uk/2010/02/the-postmodern-fascist-movement/#comment-55122 Donnchadh Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:25:38 +0000 http://www.durham21.co.uk/?p=5313#comment-55122 Chris, I think that's an important distinction you've drawn. However, my more cynical self is busy drawing up a list of things which most people assume, and (crucially) which they have good reason to assume, which it would seem pointless and tiresome for the DUS to provide a forum for discussion on. I can probably talk him out of posting it on D21, but a peek over his shoulder reveals it to include not legalising certain horrible crimes, not abolishing democracy, and not establishing state ownership of the means of production of fine china and old port. He ranks having the BNP around to chat about organising society on a race basis as soemwhere between the second and the third of these hypothetical discussions in order of wilful perversity and downright lack of importance. Chris,
I think that’s an important distinction you’ve drawn. However, my more cynical self is busy drawing up a list of things which most people assume, and (crucially) which they have good reason to assume, which it would seem pointless and tiresome for the DUS to provide a forum for discussion on. I can probably talk him out of posting it on D21, but a peek over his shoulder reveals it to include not legalising certain horrible crimes, not abolishing democracy, and not establishing state ownership of the means of production of fine china and old port. He ranks having the BNP around to chat about organising society on a race basis as soemwhere between the second and the third of these hypothetical discussions in order of wilful perversity and downright lack of importance.

]]> By: Chris http://www.durham21.co.uk/2010/02/the-postmodern-fascist-movement/#comment-55121 Chris Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:21:34 +0000 http://www.durham21.co.uk/?p=5313#comment-55121 Donnchadh: In line with the point argued by your more cynical self, I can imagine less pointful debates held by the DUS than a debate in which the BNP took part - if only because it's good for people to test their assumptions. 'Is it in fact possible that community of race is a good way for a society to order itself?' We all think not, but we should remind ourselves why, and coming up against people who think differently is a good way to do so. So the first invite was fine I think, because that was under the motion 'this house believes that extremist parties have a right to be heard', or soemthing similar. Whereas the multiculturalism motion implies that the initial point is to think about multiculturalism, and inviting two BNP speakers is a good way to have that discussion, which it isn't. Donnchadh: In line with the point argued by your more cynical self, I can imagine less pointful debates held by the DUS than a debate in which the BNP took part – if only because it’s good for people to test their assumptions. ‘Is it in fact possible that community of race is a good way for a society to order itself?’ We all think not, but we should remind ourselves why, and coming up against people who think differently is a good way to do so. So the first invite was fine I think, because that was under the motion ‘this house believes that extremist parties have a right to be heard’, or soemthing similar. Whereas the multiculturalism motion implies that the initial point is to think about multiculturalism, and inviting two BNP speakers is a good way to have that discussion, which it isn’t.

]]> By: Donnchadh http://www.durham21.co.uk/2010/02/the-postmodern-fascist-movement/#comment-55119 Donnchadh Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:32:34 +0000 http://www.durham21.co.uk/?p=5313#comment-55119 Chris, interesting take. You may be right that the BNP, or at least their leadership, have genuinely changed their spots, and aren't trying to smuggle in fascism under more polite guise. Or perhaps not. I think that even this polite guise itself is quite sufficient to debar them from serious political discourse. What's interesting in all this is how lightly the DUS, particularly the members who made the decision to invite the BNP, have gotten off. If we think of the DUS as aspiring to provide a forum for intellectual challenge and exploration, to provide a standard and a stimulus for the student body to engage with great issues, how strange it is that they would blithely cast these aspirations aside to so blatantly court controversy and populism. But a more cynical and perhaps wiser part of me pipes up to say, listen old chap, this is the DUS we're talking about. Kindly lower your expectations to a more appropriate level. And I have to admit that this cynical part of me might have a point. Chris,
interesting take. You may be right that the BNP, or at least their leadership, have genuinely changed their spots, and aren’t trying to smuggle in fascism under more polite guise. Or perhaps not. I think that even this polite guise itself is quite sufficient to debar them from serious political discourse.
What’s interesting in all this is how lightly the DUS, particularly the members who made the decision to invite the BNP, have gotten off. If we think of the DUS as aspiring to provide a forum for intellectual challenge and exploration, to provide a standard and a stimulus for the student body to engage with great issues, how strange it is that they would blithely cast these aspirations aside to so blatantly court controversy and populism.
But a more cynical and perhaps wiser part of me pipes up to say, listen old chap, this is the DUS we’re talking about. Kindly lower your expectations to a more appropriate level. And I have to admit that this cynical part of me might have a point.

]]> By: David http://www.durham21.co.uk/2010/02/the-postmodern-fascist-movement/#comment-55118 David Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:28:01 +0000 http://www.durham21.co.uk/?p=5313#comment-55118 NIck Griffin was a official EU representative at copenhagen. A fervent nationalist working as a representative for the EU... There is a very simple explanation for the BNP if you're willing to admit you've been duped. The BNP are a creation of the establishment used in a game of dialectics to move us towards the goals they want. Their role is to discredit opposition, so to discredit nationalism, discredit global warming skeptics etc... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6683385/BNP-leader-Nick-Griffin-will-represent-Europe-at-Copenhagen-climate-change-summit.html Protesting for free speech is a noble act. But what is more noble is people actually exercising their right of free speech by breaking through the propaganda matrix and facing the hard truth Hard truth 1; we don't live in the UK anymore... http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1338 NIck Griffin was a official EU representative at copenhagen. A fervent nationalist working as a representative for the EU…
There is a very simple explanation for the BNP if you’re willing to admit you’ve been duped. The BNP are a creation of the establishment used in a game of dialectics to move us towards the goals they want. Their role is to discredit opposition, so to discredit nationalism, discredit global warming skeptics etc…

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6683385/BNP-leader-Nick-Griffin-will-represent-Europe-at-Copenhagen-climate-change-summit.html

Protesting for free speech is a noble act. But what is more noble is people actually exercising their right of free speech by breaking through the propaganda matrix and facing the hard truth

Hard truth 1; we don’t live in the UK anymore…

http://www.wiseupjournal.com/?p=1338

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