http://www.wiseupjournal.com//?p=991

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM0aQSB8PFI

1. The Charter of Fundamental Rights is often used as a selling point for the Lisbon Treaty, however, it isn’t legally binding in itself. ‘Many of its provisions only apply “in accordance with EU and national laws and practices”. This means it is only to be used in relation to EU law, and discriminatory national laws could remain. On top of this the European Court of Justice can place limits on how it is applied in order to meet “objectives of general interest recognised by the union”… in which an open market and free competition are central.’

So The Charter of Fundamental Rights will be interpreted to fit with the agenda of the EU.

http://www.caeuc.org/index.php?q=node/10

2. You’re right; the treaty was made to be as incomprehensible as possible so no one could read it before it was implemented. So in the French version there was 329 A4 pages of different and unconnected amendments to 17 existing basic treaties. The amendments can only be read and understood if they are inserted at appropriate places in the 2800 pages of relevant treaties. They also did other things like cram as many words as possible onto each page and use four different numbering systems. The whole idea being that the contents of the treaty would not be made public before it was signed.

3. The qualified majority voting has nothing to do with MEP’s. The ‘more democratic’ element of it I think you are suggesting exists in the Lisbon Treaty is just a fail safe in case too few large countries can have too large a sway over what laws are passed (although they will still dominate). But the MEP’s do not vote on laws under the Lisbon Treaty.

4. Both Labour and Conservatives work for the same agenda, they are a two headed beast. A good example of this since this is a Durham student site is David Davis’ who gave an interview in the Palatinate earlier this year selling himself as anti big brother state. Well it turns out that he is being supported by the agenda and companies who want to implement the big brother surveillance state, I.D cards etc. (link below) And yes, so many of our laws come from EU directives right now but the situation will be completely different under the Lisbon Treaty as EU law will super-seed our law, we wont even have a choice.

5. Jens-Peter Bonde has written 60 books on the EU and has translated the only readable version of the Lisbon Treaty. His book ‘From EU Constitution to Lisbon Treaty’ is the best book available on the Lisbon Treaty, it goes into enormous detail and is written with expert authority. Have a look at it

6. I don’t vilify Eastern European states! That is like calling me a racist if I criticise Obama’s policies. Borders are being opened not just in Europe but around the world, the idea is to weaken people’s idea of belonging to a specific nation state so we will be lest resistant to their plans of massive centralisation of power. Connect the dots; the EU, the NAU, the African Union the Pacific union…world leaders are talking about a world central bank! We are slowly moving towards global governance so the idea is to weaken people’s sense of national identity.
Another reason is to just drive down living standards and that is already happening in Britain with people having to compete will Eastern European immigrants who are willing to do the same job for much less money. I know a plumber who is currently struggling with competition with Polish plumbers. This is not racism; people simply want to protect a reasonable standard of living and the only party who understands this is the BNP and the BNP is a racist party! That really is quite a beautiful piece of social engineering, a very affective way to dismiss people who are against further European integration; label them racists.
Note: the higher levels of the BNP are very dodgy and include former secret service members from South Africa’s apartheid (British) regime setting involved in setting the BNP agenda and training members

7. The Nazi links I have posted in earlier posts may make you question the benign intentions of starting the EU.

I would recommend the film End of Nations which is about the Lisbon Treaty and can be found on google video

Jens-Peter Bonde, a *former* MEP, is a member of Denmark’s Euroskeptic organisation the June Movement so he is not an objective voice when discussing the Treaty of Lisbon. Also, the nature of the Treaty is to not be read start to finish. It is in itself a series of amendments to older treaties like Maastrict and Nice and would actually improve them by doing, among other things, making the Charter of Fundamental Rights legally binding and holding all member states (even the Eastern ones you so vilify) bound to the visions of humanity enshrined by Karel Vasek’s three generations of human rights. This includes the total abolition of the death penalty in Europe. The introduction of a new voting system in the Council (QVM) would give every EU citizen a more equal voice, giving our elected MEPs political clout to match the numbers who voted for them. It would be nice if you named this Lativian company, it’s the first time I’ve ever heard of such a thing. Especially as Riga has blossomed in the EU and would surely have needed all the construction workers it could get (and it’s Eastern Europe already, so nowhere to import ‘cheap labour’ from).

Your article is saturated with unnecessary, ignorant, sensationalist language. You suggest that the Treaty of Lisbon would give all power to the EU but also suggest that this is alreay happening by calling the Labour-Tory battles in the opinion polls meaningless. And ‘elected dictatorships’ is an oxymoron in its purest form. The Trilateral Commission was founded in 1973 to foster closer relations between Japan, Europe and North America and long after the process of creating a European communtity aad already begun. I cannot understand why you feel the need to talk about war, fascism, tyranny and ‘superstates’ so much when the EU was founded out of the ashes of war for lasting peace in Europe. Your anti-European venom has echoed down ever since the Treaty of Rome, the same voices saying the same arguements at every turn of the EU.

Representative Ron Paul on this
http://www.counterpunch.org/paul2.html

Again, watch loose change final cut

Sutton documents that Standard Oil gave Germany the ability to start a war. Standard oil was a Rockefeller company. The Rockefeller foundation also helped bankroll the Nazi eugenics program. These are documented facts. And these same elites are still running things, e.g. research the Bilderberg group

I’ve put a few Nazi links up there; have a look at them all and get back to me.

Reason why i’m wrong;

1. the Lisbon treaty will super-seed all national law, e.g. so economic, public services, policing etc. This isn’t happening at the moment

2. my terrorism point is true; the EU will have authority on counter-terrorism

3. The working groups are basically corporate lobby groups. An Irish MEP kept lobbying for the issue of aspartame (dangerous sweetener mainly found in fizzy drinks) to be look at by a committee to see whether it was safe. The small committee included people who had worked in the artifical sweetner industry their whole lives, it was a complete joke. Yes there are working groups in Britain dictating policy but at least MP’s vote on laws.

4. making us compete for jobs equally with Latvians will not increase our living standards, i think this is obvious. The economic situation is complicated, countries have to be given economic incentives to join of course, but the structure that they are setting up is fascist so it wont be good for us in the long run

My main sources are things like;

From EU constitution to Lisbon Treaty by Jens-Peter Bonde (author of 60 books on the EU and recently published a readable version of the Lisbon treaty)- lays everything out clearly in 100 pages

MEP’s and EU lawyers accounts- end of nations documentary

And documents like this
http://www.mehr-demokratie.de/fileadmin/pdfarchiv/bund/2008-08-eu-booklet-flyer.pdf

‘The Lisbon Treaty constitutes 98% of the original constitution’- So what? It’s the 2% that counts, a human is geneticly 98% identical to a rat.

‘a proto-fascist corporate take-over.’- this does not make any sense.

‘The EU under the Lisbon Treaty will supersede all national law. The EU will have the legal personality of a sovereign state’
– EU law already supersede’s national law, see the Factortame decision in the House of Lord’s 20 years ago. This relationship is also and will always be voluntary because of the nature of Parliament- see the Jackson decision in 2004.

‘policy comes from EU directives (education policy for example) or from WTO agreements and internationalist think tanks like The Trilateral commission.’
– Do you have a series of examples? While it is true that a fair number amount of legislation is influenced by EU directives, this is the minority and thus it does not support your view that there is ‘essentially two competing management teams vying to serve the real power structure.’

‘They can vote on the policy suggestions made by the commissioners. Their discussions are minutes are not made available to MEP’s. The real power though is behind the Commissioners and Council of Ministers; in the shadows lurk 300 (main groups of 3000) ‘working groups’; basically behind the scenes corporate policy planners and lobbyists; these are the groups really setting the agenda.’
-Again, where is your evidence for this? The working groups suggest policy in the same way as committees and sub-committees do in Parliament and most other western democracies. The committees are actually made up of experts in the fields they are appointed to suggest legislaiton for, they are not ‘corporate policy planners’???

‘suggest laws; they can only suggest amendments to laws proposed by the commissioners.’
– Wrong, they can also vote down legislation and send it back to committee stage to be reworked.

‘General living standards are very likely to drop under this system’
-How? The EU is responsible for most of the worker friendly legislation we have in this country. Maternity and paternity leave, working time directive, statutory leave, discrimination legislation etc. The EU goes out of its way to protect workers and one of it’s key goals is to raise living standards.

‘A recent Daily Telegraph study found that 9 out of 10 of new jobs under New Labour have gone to foreign nationals.’
– This is misleading, Ignac explains why.

‘Terrorism legislation will also mean that you can be deported to any prison in the EU without national protection’
– This is speculative, there is no such clause.

‘imagine your children in the future being brainwashed in school at an early age to see themselves as part of a future European utopia.’
-Eh????????

Your conclusion is also removed from your ‘argument’, you fail to explain how the Lisbon treaty will actually from a superstate, save for some rather absurd and unfounded speculation. You even point out in your article that the Lisbon treaty is 300 pages of amendments to 3,000 other treaties, I therefore assume you have not actually read the treaty and are therefore simply basing your assumptions on other people’s views. Also, just so you know, it is common practice for legislation such as this to contain in it a large amount of references to amendments of other legislation, see the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 2008 for an example, it is therefore probably not a conspiracy by the EU to cover up the true nature of the treaty…

I’m curious as to whether you used any neutral and reliable sources when reaching your absurd conclusions or was the Daily Mail the primary source of information? Either way Mr Richards your article is in one short word- shit.

P.s The author further undermines his credibility by revealing his support for 9/11 conspiracy theories and a zionist super network controlling the world….damn space lizards.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sCpsq55uic

I haven’t used this case as a basis of my understanding of the Lisbon treaty. The advocate-general’s comments are very revealing though. Under the conditions of extreme centralisation of power it has to be an authoritarian structure, otherwise nothing will ever get done. The civil servants who will be given the role of running the super-state are employees of the union, not representatives of the people, so they have to do what they told and cannot publish dissenting opinions.

I never said that because the Nazi’s had a similar plan that we will live in a Nazi style European super-state. I think that those truths reveal that this form of European government uses consent rather than conquest to create enormous centralisation of power for certain elites. It’s the same goal.
On the Nazi’s; important Nazi industrialists have been centrally involved in creating and shaping the EU. Here is the author of that Nazi/EU article talking about what the powerful Nazi elites decided to do after the war and how they were and continue to be involved in designing it, e.g. important members of the Bilderberg group (meeting of top western elites) The BBC recently found out that the Bilderberg group had planned the euro in 1955)
This is a good little interview
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vX6NntMuQI&NR=1

There are also important Nazi links with American and British financial interests e.g. Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler by Anthony C. Sutton

‘Professor Antony C. Sutton proves that World War II was not only well planned, it was also extremely profitable—for a select group of financial insiders. Carefully tracing this closely guarded secret through original documents and eyewitness accounts, Sutton documents the roles played by J.P. Morgan, T. W. Lamont, the Rockefeller interests, General Electric Company, Standard Oil, National City Bank, Chase and Manhattan banks, Kuhn, Loeb and Company, and scores of other business elitists.’

Yes, MEP’s will only be able to suggest amendments to laws. MEP’s like Jens-Peter Bonde talk about this.

On the Nazi point, you’ve just repeated what the article you cited claims. Just because some Nazis had blueprints for policies similar to those currently being implemented or planned by the EU doesn’t make the EU a totalitarian state. The key points are transparency and democratic control. Both of these could arguably be improved, but comparisons with Nazis greatly overstate your case.

You claim that MEPs will have no power in future. Can new European Law be forced through against the wishes of a majority of MEPs?

The whole focus of the article seems to me to be the fact that the attacks were an inside job.

There are other examples.
evans-pritchard (2000) ‘You have only to read Article 52 (latest version) of the Charter to see where this is heading. It states that the European Union may limit all rights and freedoms enumerated in the Charter `subject to the principle of proportionality’, where `necessary’ in order to `meet objectives of general interest recognised by the Union’. When I asked the top figures of the drafting convention at a press conference what was to stop this `raison d’etat’ clause being misused for authoritarian purposes, there were audible hisses from a number of EU journalists in the room, and the justice commissioner, Antonio Vitorino, let out one of those patronising little laughs that the EU elite has so perfected. Nobody really answered the question.’

Nazi point:
In his book “Europe’s Full Circle,” Rodney Atkinson provides a list of policies proposed by Nazis and their similarity to today’s European Union.

• Europaische Wirtshaftsgemeinschaft
• European Economic Community
• European Currency System
• European Exchange Rate Mechanism
• Europabank (Berlin)
• European Central Bank (Frankfurt)
• European Regional Principle
• Committee of the Regions
• Common Labour Policy
• Social Chapter
• Economic and Trading Agreements
• Single Market

The same plans is take all important areas of governance out of the public arena and put them under the control of shadowy bureaucrats working for the elites.

German pro-democracy group explains how undemocratic the EU is and how it will get worse. Everything is sourced to EU law (talks about military issues in the lisbon treaty- Irish neutrality point)

http://www.mehr-demokratie.de/fileadmin/pdfarchiv/bund/2008-08-eu-booklet-flyer.pdf

The lock on neutrality (that Irish armed forces won’t be committed without majority support in the Irish parliament) has been a part of Irish law for some time now. The Lisbon Treaty doesn’t remove this.

The Nazi comparison is a weak as water. Centralisation of power isn’t automatically non-democratic, although there are certainly arguments to be had about how the balance between the various bodies of the EU should be best achieved. The article you cited is a string of assertions from start to finish. It’s also flatly wrong in certain places (on the Connolly ruling; also, Geert Wilders wasn’t refused entry to the UK “his political opinions were deemed offensive under EU laws”, but because, rightly or wrongly, he was regarded as a threat to public order here).

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3724/is_200011/ai_n8923307/

Although I doubt they will try and enforce that court ruling. They will not need to ban non-conformist MEP’s because they don’t have any power anyway

Lock on neutrality? I’m not aware of this
The man who wrote the EU constitution said that the Lisbon Treaty was 98% the same as the EU constitution so I don’t see how two constitutions can work in tandem. The Lisbon treaty was written as a list of amendments to restrict referendums, as France and Holland had both voted against the constitution

The point is that the Nazi’s had in mind the exact same ways to achieve enormous centralisation of power, starting with economic agreements. I don’t see how anyone could follow that route for creating a European super-state which is explained in the article with the aim of creating a democratic or free society, it’s structurally impossible.
And anyway, we do know that it is tyrannical; the MEP’s will have no power under the Lisbon Treaty and they are our only elected representatives. MEP’s explain this well in an Irish film about the treaty called ‘End of Nations’

Dan: That’s a quote from a former Italian President who says that intelligence agencies know that 9/11 was an inside job, just because he blaims ‘zionists’ doesn’t mean that the website endorses that view.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/december2007/120407_common_knowledge.htm

‘[On 9/11] The official story insults the intelligence of a five year old.’ – ?!

And, here’s something I pulled from one of Alex’s websites:

‘[quoting Cossiga] ‘the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the CIA American and the Mossad with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic Countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part … in Iraq [and] Afghanistan’

‘…Coming from a widely respected former head of state, Cossiga’s assertion that the 9/11 attacks were an inside job and that this is common knowledge amongst global intelligence agencies is highly unlikely to be mentioned by any establishment media outlets…’

That’s on-record worldwide Zionist conspiracy theory touting.

The Nazi article you linked to in no way shows that an EU government, should one ever come into being, would be totalitarian. Some totalitarians wanted a United States of Europe. This doesn’t mean that any future USE will therefore be totalitarian.

One other thing: one of the articles you linked to contained this gem: “Independence parties will effectively be outlawed as under the 1999 ruling of the European Court Of Justice (case 274/99), it is illegal to criticize the EU”
You may have noticed this hasn’t actually happened. The court’s ruling on this case can be found on curia.europa.eu (the case is C-274/99). Philip Jones, either deliberately or not, completely misrepresents this ruling (it concerns Staff Regulations, and says nothing about criticism of the EU by citizens or parties). I wouldn’t rely too heavily on him in future, if I were you.

Look up; The Project for a New American Century
It was founded in 1997 by priominent beocons including Dick Cheney, Paul wolfowitz, William Kristol, Rochard Pearl and others. This organisation produced the infamous Rebuilding America’s Defences documents which recommended a terroist attack like a new Pearl Harbour would be needed to implement their plans in the middle east.

Watch Loose Change: Final Cut

Aaron Russo was a famous hollywood director who became an activist and was later befriended by David Rockefellers cousin who basically told him 9/11 would happen
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=aaron+russo+interview&search_type=&aq=0&oq=aaron+russo

People can dismiss this stuff as crazy if they want, fine. But people come out all the time and say it was an inside job, there’s mountians of evidence. I could literally post a 100 people coming out and saying it was an inside job.
The 9/11 truth movement was actually started by the victims families.
The official story insults the intelligence of a five year old.
By all means dismiss this stuff; i’m just urging people to have a look at it first. Or remain in ignornace

infowars.com is mainly links to mainstream sources; have a look at it properly before dismissing it

The serbia thing; well that article is a good summary of things that i’ve already heard and read and it mentions many elements that you can reference, court rulings etc, so take from it what you will. Also,the writer is not serbian, I imagine it is an activist article he is sending around everywhere he can

The website cherry-picks disgraceful reportage from the loony fringe of world opinion and dresses it up as news. Try the ‘Kosovo in limbo’ article, which would be laughable if only it didn’t seem to be arguing that NATO should have left Serb forces in Kosovo, during the genocide [the genocide which, the article mysteriously fails to remember, not mentioning anything but the plight of Serbia].

Read the nazi article, the point is that the Nazi’s had exactly the same tactics to develop an EU control gird, what does this tell you about the type of government they are setting up? It’s totalitarian

I’m just trying to bring awareness to this because people have no idea, here is a better summary than mine

http://www.kim.sr.gov.yu/cms/item/analyzes/en.html?view=story&id=3359&sectionId=13

The Nazi link is an extremely cheap shot, and is beneath you. In fairness, it’s little better than arguing against animal rights on the grounds that Hitler was a vegetarian.

it was the nazi one; http://www.infowars.com/top-nazis-planned-eu-style-fourth-reich/

Although it is interesting to see how a former soviet dissident sees the EU under the lisbon treaty

http://www.infowars.com/ireland-set-to-vote-on-eu-dictatorship/

E.g. this interview with former Soviet dissident Vladimir Bukovksy
http://www.infowars.com/ireland-set-to-vote-on-eu-dictatorship/

What I said about the Latvian construction company is an actual EU law directive, look it up.

I know Britain is becoming authoritarian but it is nowhere near as dangerous as the EU under the Lisbon treaty, any fight against centralisation of power is important. (the nazis even wanted the same style of EU (http://www.infowars.com/top-nazis-planned-eu-style-fourth-reich/)

The EU will have a similar stance on civil rights, they will just be much less accountable, and our voice will be more diluted

http://www.infowars.com/articles/nwo/eu_euro_globalists_anyone_who_resists_eu_is_a_terrorist.htm

http://www.statewatch.org/news/2001/sep/14eulaws.htm

Wages have already been lowered under the EU treaties. I’ve seen it with my own eyes, one of my mates is a plumber who has had to lower his wages at times to compete with polish plumbers in a neighbouring city. This is all well known. There was even a BBC documentary showing hundreds of workers in the north all been sacked at the time who where then replaced by polish workers who the factory owner was legally allowed to pay under the minimum wage. It wont hurt middle class service sector jobs at first, it will hurt working jobs

The EU super-state will be completely undemocratic, what I said about that is taken from the MEP’s themselves. The idea that such a huge and diverse state could be democratic is ridiculous

Here is a film with MEP activists talking that I took a lot of this info from

http://www.infowars.com/end-of-nations-eu-takeover-the-lisbon-treaty/
http://www.infowars.com
Source: http://www.infowars.com

p.s. your military argument is correct at the moment but the Lisbon treaty has not been ratified yet. I’m talking about the lisbon treaty