The Problem with ‘Palatinate’
“You want answers?”
“I want the truth!”
“You can’t handle the truth!” – A Few Good Men
As regular visitors to this website will no doubt be aware, there has recently been a great debate over exactly what happened at Trevs Bar on December 4th 2008, who is to blame for it all, and what action is being taken by various parties. Both sides have been weighing in with their arguments, and in the short time the debate has been going on the message boards, a vast number of facets of the argument have been covered, demonstrating the strength of feeling that subsists nearly four months on. On Palatinate’s equivalent discussion forums, and also the letters page in actual print copies of the paper, it seems that the hot topic is the efficacy, or perceived lack thereof, of the Cuth’s JCR. I have no wish to attract the ire of those defenders of the Society whom, like committed ultra-nationalists, perceive their community to be utterly without fault, but there appear to be parallels between the two situations. For example, ad hominem attacks have been made on the writers in question, and blinkered comments such as “To write what is such a subjective piece with such poor research and viewpoint is a discrepancy seen previously only by the likes of Piers Morgan” (Palatinate comment thread) and “I prefer to believe that real justice will prevail, the Castle lads will be found innocent, and those making the accusations will be brought to account” (durham21 comment thread) have found their way into the debate (Simon Cox and ‘Concerned’, you know who you are). Make no bones about it, they are both issues that have ignited debate amongst the student body in quite a considerable way. But which topic is the student body as a whole most aware of? There can only be one answer.
Let’s see what a recent article in Durham’s official student newspaper has to say, regarding the dispute over the sacking of Castle’s Bar Chair;
“The affair started as long ago as 4th December last year, when ‘Elephant Polo Club’, a college drinking society, was involved in a number of controversial incidents. Members of the society were accused of intimidating students in college bars on a social.” (Palatinate, February 13th)
That’s all we get. That’s practically all we got when the story first broke; as Jonny Dixon pointed out, the article focused more on the wider implications for Castle JCR, rather than the actual events. “Intimidating students in college bars on a social”? That happens all the time; I can recall a number of groups from other colleges entering Trevs Bar, generally being loud and intimidating. Two points leap to mind about the way the writer of this particular Palatinate article has chosen to word this statement. Firstly, as a witness to the general chaos, the verb ‘to accuse’ is inappropriate – intimidation is a matter of perception. If those in the bar at the time felt intimidated, then there is no room for debate. It seems that the tone of the paragraph above is carefully calculated so as to absolve all parties of wrongdoing. Secondly, these so-called “controversial incidents” included criminal damage, and possibly sexual assault, depending upon the outcome of the police inquiry, the mention of which is also noticeably absent from much of Palatinate’s reporting. In its coverage of the Trevs Bar fiasco, the paper has all but completely covered up the notion of impropriety on this small group of Durham students. Why is it so unwilling to examine the events of that night?
Imagine, if you will, that picture of the Bullingdon Club at Oxford. Google it if you want to (or check the photo above – ed.), if only for the visual effect. Take a look at the man who in all likelihood will be our next Prime Minister, and the man who is Mayor of our country’s largest city. Take a look at the people who have taken their places in the higher echelons of society. Above all, take a look at their effete posturing, their insouciance to anything outside their little circle, their born-to-rule arrogance. Of course, their notoriety stems from their culture of criminal damage, their predilection for wanton, haphazard destruction; in essence, they are the EPC of Oxford. Not just at Durham, but at all universities, there tends to be a sense of the student population as hermetically sealed off from other citizens of university towns. Any acts of violence and/or damage to property are all too often written off as typical student behaviour; just another social. Just another act of mindless vandalism. Just another alleged sexual assault. You have to wonder how serious an incident involving a student social has to be before it is actually brought to the attention of the collegiate community. Instead, what we get is journalistic emphasis, on Palatinate’s part, on insular JCR politics. The Cuth’s debate, regardless of the amount of debate it has generated, has been given undue prominence, as the only reported issue that has aroused such debate in years, but one which pales in significance compared to December 4th. The debate over what my colleague has termed ‘Wankergate’, as I have said, has been focused on the power of Castle’s JCR, rather than the abhorrent actions of those who invaded Trevs Bar that night. I have in front of me the latest edition of the newspaper, and the headline concerns the annual ‘Invasion’ of other colleges by Chad’s students. Less than half of the article actually concerns the incident itself, and most of the column inches are given over to, surprise surprise, the effect on Chad’s JCR and their precious college traditions. The last sentence of the story is telling; “The Principal agreed that Chad’s Day invasions should no longer take place.” I’m willing to bet that when the inevitable deluge of responses from aggrieved Chad’s students arrives, it will be overwhelmingly concerned with the fallout from the chaos, rather than the events themselves. For the record, the fact that pedestrians were pushed aside by rampaging yahoos occupies twelve words. That’s all there is, on the effect of the invasion on local people. Palatinate, once again, as a publishing organ, has proved itself just as insular as those who are ready to defend the actions of the EPC, and who simply cannot comprehend that St. Cuthbert’s Society is anything but Utopia in college form. The paper is inextricably linked with the DSU, and it seems that the emphasis on student politics, rather than the outside world, is resultant.
Not only is the focus contained within articles regarding instances of student misbehaviour often skewed the wrong way, there does not seem to be a great deal of reporting on the ugly side of Durham. Occupying the same space on the front page as the Chad’s story is a report on an award bestowed upon our esteemed Chancellor by the city. Obviously, this is a laudable achievement, and I would count myself among Bill Bryson’s biggest fans, but this self-congratulatory aspect of the paper’s output often occupies more space than any misdemeanours that have occurred.
I can’t praise Durham students highly enough for all that they do in the fields of academia, sport, music, drama, charity, and all the activities that characterize the three or four years spent at university. Clearly, these things are worthy of praise, and are newsworthy within the context of student life. But when there are only a handful of negative articles in a 40-page publication, something has to be up, and that something is most probably the DSU, pulling the editorial strings above those who work on Palatinate, so as not to allow a negative story to escape into the ether of public perception. In the People’s Republic of China, there is a government diktat that 80% of news reported has to be of a positive nature. I don’t want to trot out the tired, cynical maxim that ‘misery sells’, but there needs to be transparency of journalistic intent when incidents such as the EPC’s vandalism happen. By focusing on the positive aspects of student life, almost to the exclusion of all else, and sweeping criminal activity under the carpet, Palatinate does Durham a disservice, just as the Chinese government does when it hoodwinks its people into believing everything to be perfect. If we were to be given details of some of the dubious behaviour that goes on, it might act as a deterrent to others, who think that, because there exists a general atmosphere of condoning and collusion, it’s alright to do what the EPC did, what the EPC and others like them will in all probability continue to do, and what cannot be allowed to happen if we wish to project the image of students that Palatinate suggests is accurate, but which all who have witnessed some of the disgraceful unreported incidents know to be the truth.
George Twigg
I don’t know much about the reporting of the two stories you use as examples, but I don’t think it’s fair to move from your criticisms of these to your conclusion. The brute fact is that not a huge amount happens in Durham to report on, which is a better explanation for why the Cuths furore had ‘undue prominence’ (which was the result of a comment article, not a news report) and why Bill Bryson’s award made the front page, than your theis: “The paper is inextricably linked with the DSU, and it seems that the emphasis on student politics, rather than the outside world, is resultant.”
I’ve written two news pieces this year that made the front page which were neither positive nor about student politics. One on Shaheens’ treatment of two former student emloyees, and one on the Iranian government funding for a university forum on ‘Iranian theocracy and democracy’.
The real danger with the DSU publishing Palatinate, via the brand new Palatinate constitution and executive-style board, is that they will be overly cautious when it comes to content which might offend people. But that doesn’t exactly make the DSU the People’s Republic of China.
Overall, this article gives the impression of throwing a lot of information together (including A Few Good Men and the Bullngdon Club!) in the hope that it will turn into something like a substantial critique. It doesn’t.
Here here to above comment.
In reponse to the comment regarding stories being ‘skewed the wrong way’- in a student newspaper, written by students for students, the student politics side of an issue is also of utmost importance. What a sad day it would be if we concerned ourselves purely with every gory detail of every act that Mr Joe Bloggs committed whilst blind drunk and on the rampage, without regard for what the implications might be on the student community and how such events are responded to.
To say that Palatinate does Durham a disservice is unfair, but fortunately most people can recognise a comment piece when they see one.
Palatinate is a boring wank rag and the bitch of the DSU
Upon finding out what really happened in Trevs Bar that night I was desperately disappointed with Palatinate’s coverage of the story – ie. there was none, though I realise that this may be because the police investigation is ongoing and hence they wanted to wait for an official report (I expect a follow up report on the outcomes of the investigation). However I thought the article on Chad’s was okay and shocked people enough. It’s perfectly legitimate to focus on the implications for the student community in a student newspaper.
To compare the DSU to the PRC is just downright unfair. Whilst the DSU is pretty timid when it comes to Palatinate and not wanting to cause controversy, and it does need to allow more debate (the furore around Cuths is a great start – interesting and a little controversial), I don’t think it’s trying to cover its own back directly or cover up potentially damaging content. Palatinate does not do Durham a disservice; quite the opposite. I just wish that it (and the DSU) had a little more backbone sometimes.
To all: Looking back, it probably was a bit much to compare the DSU to the People’s Republic of China, and considering what we’ve heard in the news with regards to the PRC’s surveillance of personal computers, I should probably refrain from similar comments in the future. However, that wasn’t the focus of the point I made – the intention was not to imply that Andy Welch is a political doppelganger of Hu Jintao, or that the DSU is particularly repressive of dissent, it was purely a throwaway point about press censorship. I should have made it clear, in retrospect, that I was simply referring to this facet of the Chinese government.
Chris W: Regarding the Cuth’s dispute, I think that it is important to address how particular college JCRs function, but the overarching issue of the behaviour of certain groups of students, which I have alluded to in the above article, affects the whole university rather than just one college, and is therefore, in my opinion, something that Palatinate’s news articles could stand to address more often. The two articles you cite (the Iranian lecture, and the employment dispute) are the sort of thing we need to see more of. You are right to be concerned about the potential for overly cautious editorial policy – could you what the terms of this new constitution are, just to illustrate how (or if) it will affect the content of the newspaper? Also, I’d be interested to know your views on whether the right amount of coverage was given to the EPC incident; did you not once resign from a position on Palatinate over the censorship of a cartoon? Do you think this is similar?
Jess P: I’m not advocating that every single detail of the various misdemeanours that occur should be expressed in Palatinate (if I want to get depressed, I can just read the Daily Mail); you are correct about the need for analysis. However, said analysis of the implications often seems to be concerned with the implications on college JCRs, rather than people who have been distressed in any way (please see the paragraoh concerning the Chad’s article).
David M: We can only hope that Palatinate will finally get to the bottom of the Trevs Bar incident; it could well be that they are waiting for the outcome of the police investigation. Having said that, most national newspapers will report the facts even before the police have looked into an event (for example, a news story might concern a robbery or an assault without clear evidence of who is responsible). I realise that the facts about what the EPC did are still opaque, but there should at least have been a mention that something untoward did occur. Regarding the Chad’s article, it will be interesting to see if Palatinate runs a comment piece concerning it, perhaps looking into the implications for college ‘Days’ throughout the university. In addition, perhaps the organ will build on the ‘great start’, as you put it, of the debate over Cuth’s, or whether this kind of heated debate and criticism will be a flash in the pan.
Also, can I thank everyone for posting comments that aren’t to do with who should make the bloody Lions team. Perhaps durham21 should just start a Lions thread and let people argue away to their heart’s content.
I love the way Palatinate advertise themselves as the best, longest running etc publication in Durham, even though the only reason they have existed for so long is because they sponge off the DSU. They don’t even publish anything worth while, who gives a shit about Cuth’s JCR being full of wankers? Yet they milked the story for the best part of a term, how about they report what’s really going on? Like why our university is so broke we have to sell off the bailey and Old Elvet, how various members of the uni and dsu staff have been arrested for fraud over the past two years and countless other stories that would be worth reporting…. but no, sighhhhhh Palatinate can’t do anything worth while because the DSU hold the purse strings and the DSU is a useless, incompetent, spineless organisation.
Phew rant over…..still it could be worse, they could be like DICCU (pronounced DICKu)
Palatinatesucks: I have been looking to put together an article on the DICKu so stay tuned…
Oh and I am not the author of the piece, as the website seems intent on asserting!
It’s cause you posted it you fool…
aww i was hoping it would say (editor)…
Palatinatesucks: I have to ask, were you christened Palatinatesucks?
A few things. Is anyone else thinking that when ‘Palatinatesucks’ says ‘countless other stories worth reporting’ he/she has no other stories in mind? As I say, not much happens in Durham. The university being broke is not really a story, it’s just the normal condition for universities these days. If he/she has specific info on fraud that we havn’t covered (though I vaguely remember a story of that kind last year) he/she could send it to news@palatinate.org.uk
Palatinate does not ‘sponge off’ the DSU, in the sense that its printing costs are certainly not less than its advertising revenue. The DSU is the publisher, however, so it is right that it has a certain say over what the paper prints (because they could be sued if we mess up). I think in the past they have been over-cautious, and in the future they may be again, but what people seem to be insinuating is that the DSU covers up important student news for its own reasons, which is quite different.
Yet again, Palatinatesucks, ‘the Cuth’s story’ was just a series of opinion article generated by Cuths students pissed off with other Cuths students. If people want to get angry over relatively dull things, I don’t see why Palatinate shouldn’t be a vehicle for that. People read it.
I’d love to talk constitution, George, but it’s a long story. The fact you hadn’t heard of it, given that it was debated at a DSU Council meeting not long ago, rather makes the point that you don’t know much about what you’re talking about. Similarly, I don’t know about the reporting of the EPC story, mainly because the story is as uninteresting to me as Cuths JCR. Some thugs were thuggish and there’s a police investigation about it. Yes, the allegations are serious, but not especially interesting. Maybe the story wasn’t covered fully enough, but I don’t see any evidence that it’s some kind of censorship. After all, you don’t answer your own rather melodramatic question: “Why is it so unwilling to examine the events of that night?” Is it because the DSU is protecting the EPC and dangling bags of gold at us to keep us from blabbing? Or is it because we are systematically distracted by the fascinating intrigue of student politics and insensitive to the effects of students on the ‘outside world’?
I think it’s fair to agree with Chris that not a great deal happens at Durham, and pretending otherwise is a mistake. ‘News’ is thin on the ground – happily, some might say – and in that respect perhaps the focus of the publication needs to be re-oriented somewhat.
What I feel is a far greater problem with Palatinate is the poor (and often downright shoddy) quality of writing, sub-editing and layout. Last year, the publication had slowly managed to pull together a strong, coherent design, that was well sub-edited and looked pretty neat, and also contained so genuinely well-written articles.
This year, however, the quality in all areas has dived (with some obvious notable exceptions). Layout is inconsistent and reminiscent of something produced with Microsoft Publisher, stories are generally badly written and in many cases are just re-hashed press releases (I know the same happens in commercial publications, but sometimes it’s just blindingly obvious). On top of this, grammar and spelling is often out, and stores stop arbitrarily mid sentence when sub-editing has been left in the cold.
I know that each Editor wants to stamp his/her mark on the paper, but it would be wonderful if a single, consistent editorial and design policy could be introduced that would give Palatinate the opportunity to rival some rather older publications at those rather older universities we don’t like to mention in Durham.
And I will now take criticism that I haven’t bothered to check the spelling and grammar of my post. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
It’s not even *true* that the University is ‘broke’. If you read the financial statements it made a 7.3 million surplus in 2007/8 and a 3.8 million surplus in 2006/7. It had at the end of 2007/8 net assets worth over 200 million, and a debt of slightly less than 40 million. That’s not an unhealthy amount of debt compared with assets, and not a bad operating surplus either (on a turnover of over 200 million a year, so it’s not really a profit by commercial standards, but then the University isn’t out to make a profit).
Likewise, the sale of Old Elvet buildings is because the buildings are old, a pain to maintain and/or make accessible, and rather too small: it’s not as if they’re not building replacements – they were recently in the news for getting sufficient funding to start a major building project a year early, and the Science Site has been pretty much continuously having some building project going on for several years.
ChrisW: While Palatinate has been profitable for the last few years, don’t forget that this hasn’t always been true – DSU in the late 90s and early 00s used to need to subsidise Palatinate for around 10,000 a year or more: it’s only the increase in circulation (and therefore increased advertising revenue) from making it free in 2004ish that made it consistently profitable.
On the ‘publisher’ leaning on the paper to cover or cover up certain things… well, it happens, but to a much lesser extent than Murdoch influences the Times, for example. If you want really independent media that isn’t overcautious then you need it to be profitable including the funding to handle legal action. Private Eye is the only UK print publication I can think of that really meets that, and of course has its own flaws.
On the new Constitution… it’s yet another rewording of the status quo as it has been for the last 15+ years, as far as I can see. There are lots of ways to say “Palatinate shall be editorially independent. DSU as publisher shall only have the right to make changes so it doesn’t get sued”, and every few years DSU and/or Palatinate seem to feel the need to find a new wording of the same thing, and perhaps put that wording in a different place – is it in DSU’s Standing Orders, or is it in Palatinate’s Constitution, or is it in some sort of memorandum of understanding, or is it carved in six-foot stone tablets outside the Palatinate offices – but it never actually changes anything in terms of what the paper prints.
Actually Palatinate have been dire financial straights as late on as 2005:
From the Times:
ONE of Britain’s best-known student newspapers — the Durham University Palatinate — is facing an uncertain future as a result of a worsening financial situation. Tom Page, president of the student union, said: “We don’t want to set the precedent of being one of the only universities in the country without a newspaper.”
This was actually a reference on Palatinate’s Wikipedia entry, reading the entire entry gives you an idea of exactly what is wrong with Palatinate, overblown with phrases like ‘oldest and best known publication’ and listing this included in it’s amazing history:
“In February 2009, members of St. Cuthbert’s Society threatened to sue Palatinate for libel, following two comment articles written by members of the Society which heavily criticised them. The articles provoked a fierce debate, with vastly more online discussion than had been seen for the past few years.”
Having a look at durham21 there is substantially more debate on nearly every article.
The problem with Palatinate is that it’s writers believe that it great, when really it is poorly written and incredibly dull.
durham21 anyday.
Chris W: As it happens, I had heard about the new constitution, through a good friend who works on the Listings section of Palatinate. The reason I didn’t mention it in my article was that as a recent innovation, it does not have much to do with past news articles. I hope that it does lead to more journalistic transparency, but judging by what cim has said, there are doubts as to whether this will actually occur. I think that citing my absence from a no doubt highly stimulating and thrilling DSU council meeting as proof that I am conspicuously ill-informed is slightly specious.
If you don’t see the fact that members of a college society are being investigated by the police for the actions of said society as interesting, one wonders what is possibly worthy of Palatinate’s attention.
“After all, you don’t answer your own rather melodramatic question: ‘Why is it so unwilling to examine the events of that night?’” – That was just a simple rhetorical device, and I do give an answer later on (i.e. the lack of editorial independence). I also notice that you yourself give two rather whimsical faux-explanations, instead of offering possible reasons for the story not being widely reported, which would of course be welcome.
George (author): Surprisingly, that DSU Council meeting was relatively thrilling. Anyway, I just thought that if you wanted to say that Palatinate was handicapped by the DSU, then the constitution would be a relevant piece of recent news. Although cim suggests that it doesn’t make any difference, and hopefully he is right.
In the case of the news piece that is your central concern, it just doesn’t seem clear to me what interest the DSU has in covering it up. Hence the whimsical faux-explanations.
I didn’t say that the story is not worthy of Palatinate coverage, just that I personally don’t find it all that fascinating. That’s why I don’t know much about it, and also probably why I am less inclined than you to find scandal and censorship in the minimal reportage.
‘Anonymous’ (from the first wankergate article): “Palatinate wasn’t allowed to publish what it knew because, frankly, DSU was shitting itself about getting sued.” Just thought this was relevant…
It amazes me that nobody has attacked the smugness of this band of d21 writers – you accuse Palatinate of over-promoting itself! Less than a month after the d21 relaunch the website’s opinion section has reduced itself to a facilitator of trite assaults on Palatinate – congratulations on content guys.
If Palatinate was ridiculous enough to publish a comment piece called ‘the problem with d21′ (notice the lack of scare quotes around d21 by the way), it might start like this:
d21 is not ‘durham’s only independent online newspaper and lifestyle magazine’. 1. You’re forgetting the Durham Times (http://www.durhamtimes.co.uk/) 2. You haven’t published a news piece in a month, and have only published three news pieces since the relaunch (equaling the number of articles describing the relaunch, I might add) thus not fulfilling a fundamental feature of a newspaper. (etc.)
Stop pretending that Palatinate and d21 are in competition. Everyone knows that if the current editors manage to get d21 to anywhere near the quality it was before all the former editors graduated, d21 is inevitably better at getting real time debates going; d21 doesn’t have a publication date, and a stream of content helps to get people visiting the site regularly, it’s no secret; there is no enemy you’re fighting who says d21 is bad at this.
It’s also not a secret that any student can write for either Palatinate or d21 (or the Sanctuary). Each publication is only as good as the students who write for it – content in all the Durham student publications is (as you should know) of varying quality.
Dan: A few things;
I would not describe the opinion section as a facilitator of trite assaults on Palatinate, merely as a section containing ONE article on the subject of certain flaws contained in the official student newspaper of this university. It has not ‘reduced’ itself in any way; there have been numerous opinion pieces on other subjects besides Palatinate. The above article was not written as an aggressive attack, rather a reasoned analysis of the censorship issue. Judging by the amount of debate this has produced, it seems that many people feel that the question of Palatinate’s intrinsic value is an issue worth discussing, which more than justifies this, as I say, one and only article on the subject.
If Palatinate was ridiculous enough to publish a comment piece called ‘The problem with d21′, the publicity would probably be welcome.
As for the point you made about competition with Palatinate, d21 is not an acronym akin to FIS, UNITA or FLN – there is no guerilla mentality on d21′s part, fighting a battle against an implacable rival. The ‘enemy’ you speak of being merely a figment of imagination is just that. Of course the two publications have
their differences; as I hope is clear from my words at the top of the page, I would not welcome a second Palatinate, and I would imagine that d21′s editorial team’s aim is not to be the Viola to Palatinate’s Sebastian, as it were. As for the lack of news articles, as Chris W (Palatinate’s Comment Editor, no less), states above, “The brute fact is that not a huge amount happens in Durham to report on”
Thanks George, I needed three examples of what an acronym is – not that d21 is an acronym, anyway (an acronym is a word not a single letter)… It’s a bit rich of you to complain about my (figurative) usage of ‘fighting’ and ‘enemies’ given that you appear to have been serious in comparing Palatinate to the Chinese government! (which you later defended yourself for doing so).
I’ll take it you were sufficiently compelled by the points you didn’t bother addressing.
If you think you’ve generated good debate then please read again the comments of ‘palatinatesucks’, ‘JamesT’ and ‘FirstXV’. I’m sorry to say that your article on Iraq was the last good thing to hit the d21 opinion section – and it isn’t that the website isn’t capable of decent opinion pieces (check the archives). Also, the trite attacks on Palatinate that I alluded to go back to the first Wankergate article…
To Dan, I think your confusing the comments of people who visit the site as the view of d21 itself. There is also no set writing team for d21, the opinions pieces on the site are those of the authors, anyone can write on any issue bothering them. If someone wants to write an article about why d21 is wank, they can go a head and do it and it will be put up. There isn’t any censorship, which I think George is correctly pointing out is the problem with Palatinate and it has sparked a healthy debate. I’m not exactly sure what your definition of ‘smug’ is, but I don’t see any harm in writers being able to express their opinion.
As for the accusation that the ‘website’s opinion section has reduced itself to a facilitator of trite assaults on Palatinate’, one would have thought you would actually read the entire opinion section before passing comment. If you had read the section you would have noticed that there has only been one article concerning Palatinate, there has however been articles, concerning living out, the University library, the EPC scandal, the Iraq war, sell-outs, apathy, University e-mail and the rah culture. Although if by ‘facilitate’ you mean allow people to write comments attacking Palatinate, I’m sorry but we aren’t going to censor them.
As for the tagline on the banner, I apologise that in your opinion it isn’t accurate, although I am glad that it appears to be your one of your main concern regarding the site, that must at least mean we are doing something right.
Regarding the news piece issue, well to echo what everyone has said, there is little that happens in Durham, however we are trying to get more news articles on the site, so don’t worry about that.
I hope this helps to alleviate your concerns Dan, although if you feel strongly enough that d21 isn’t doing a good job, maybe you should write an article about this and we will put it up so it can be debated.
Robert Bownes (D21 Editor): Debate it here, where I’m writing it. You don’t appear to have read my comments very closely – I never accused d21 editors of agreeing with the comments made by others on the site. In fact I point out what you seem to ignore in the first paragraph of your response: it isn’t good debate when you consider the comments of ‘palatinatesucks’, ‘JamesT’ and ‘FirstXV’. I don’t think I’ve mentioned or implied anything to do with censorship either – though I’m sure more astute readers will notice this.
I’ve already talked about the lack of good opinion pieces; I do read all of them.
And it’s not just in my opinion that the tagline is wrong (although I don’t see how it is the centrepiece of my comments, as you are suggesting), the tagline is wrong, the Durham Times is an independent online newspaper (as well as printed), I provided a link, look it up.
Dan: My bad on the acronym front, I should have said abbreviation. The three examples were not just randomly chosen acronyms, as you might be aware, but the names of guerilla organisations, linking in with the rest of the sentence.
As I pointed out to Chris W earlier, I was not making a full-blown comparison between Palatinate and the Chinese Communist Party, merely explicating an example of repression on press freedom.
Yes, I was compelled by the points I didn’t bother addressing – I don’t see any point in contradicting everything someone disagreeing with me says, just for the sake of it.
Regarding the quality of the debate, I think that on the whole (yourself included), the discourse has been sensible and well-argued.
My points are of little use and rather tangential. Frustration can lead to strange things.
I havent read a Durham student newspaper during my time here, that hasn’t been extremely poor.
“In February 2009, members of St. Cuthbert’s Society threatened to sue Palatinate for libel, following two comment articles written by members of the Society which heavily criticised them. The articles provoked a fierce debate, with vastly more online discussion than had been seen for the past few years.”
Maybe the fact that they were both full of enormous amounts of inaccurate information, might have caused a level of offence to members of the JCR?
According to Palatinate, in a comment piece you may say what you like. No level of substantiation is required.
On another note as I have tried to state in many other domains, the exec at Cuths is doing a bloody good job in the eyes of more than 2 people.
I wonder why supposedly intellgient students embarass themselves by producing such poor quality journalistic material and distribute it with their names on it.
An interesting debate to stumble upon late in the game. I do love the odd dose of Palatinate-bashing that we see from time to time between d21 and The Sanctuary – mostly they’re fun to read because they reveal just how little the various writers know about the production of Palatinate. This is another prime example.
Palatinate is published by the DSU, in so far as it is financially guaranteed by the Union. Palatinate generates sufficient income from advertising to cover its publishing and distribution costs, with sufficient excess to invest in computers and the like. The paper is, therefore, in no way ‘sponging’ off the DSU-quite the reverse. The point to be made about finance and editorial control is that the DSU will be held financially responsible in the event of the paper having charges levied against it. The DSU consequently has a clear incentive to check stories and withhold those they consider to be false, slanderous etc etc. The DSU does not, however, either have the right nor the inclination to pull stories because they think they will be controversial. The most notable examples of the DSU pulling stories have been in the case of the DSU being directly implicated, which clearly presents a conflict of interest (and an absolute minefield for the editorial team). To clarify cim’s point on the constitution and the implication this has on editorial control: until the beginning of this annual year, Palatinate had no rules or guidelines for publishing policy beyond the brief comments in the DSU’s standing order. Having sat through hours of meetings on the topic, I can tell you with certainty that every word in that constitution is new to Palatinate and the DSU. The introduction of the constitution makes a huge difference to the publication of Palatinate, principally because it lays out the rights of both parties (and significantly limits the circumstances in which the DSU can demand the retraction of a story). The constitution is freely available to see for those who actually care to learn when the DSU can and cannot pull rank; doing so should hopefully remove the repetitive and vague comments about the DSU and its almighty power over Palatinate.
Secondly, to discuss the practical element of publishing news stories. I cannot comment on the story around which you base this article, since I am no longer a member of the editorial board and have not been involved in the coverage of this. What I will do is reiterate Chris’ point about the lack of news in Durham, though I admit this is a weak defense. It is telling that neither The Sanctuary nor this esteemed website report thoroughly on Durham news; the former prints largely national news (often which relates to Durham and education) and the latter clearly has a commitment to opinion and debate, rather than news reporting. Palatinate’s news section is far from perfect- in fact, it is far and away the most difficult section to fill, manage and edit. Stories are hard to come by mostly because people are rarely willing to offer up information within this claustrophobic community, and because the news team is small and overstretched as it is. As I have said, I cannot comment on collection of details on the story in question, but I can hazard a guess at what happened: people locked down. ‘Controversial’ stories in Durham that do not relate to student politics or University misdemeanors are few and far between because people are rarely willing to tell news outlets what happened. It is an honest (and admittedly sad) reflection on news gathering in Durham. Circles are so interlinked in this university that the people in question avoid answering questions like the plague. This is not a reflection of bad journalism, but on the difficultly of the task in hand. When JCRs and onlookers alike skirt around incidences and offer no answers- not even vague answers- it’s damn near impossible to compose a story that does not flirt with the law in almost every conceivable way. No hard evidence = no story. I’d like to think that if all those who had sufficient interest to remark on the poor standard of news in Palatinate- and they are many- involved themselves in the process of news gathering in this town, we’d have a section to rival the admirable offerings of student newspapers such as Varsity and Cherwell. The DSU rarely wade in because the stories don’t get that far without facts. The rare incidences they do interfere have, in my experience, concerned issues of student safety, and I think we can all agree that the safety of a member of our community should be privileged over a good news story. In fact, the biggest conflict between the DSU and Palatinate over a story in recent history involved an edict from the University rather than the Union. Such is the burden of existing in a University community.
I won’t bore you any longer- apologies for the excessively long post. Palatinate is far from perfect- and contrary to TheFirstXV’s assertion, its writers and editors are not short-sighted enough to think otherwise. There is, and always will be, considerable room for improvement, which is part of the reason why most of the people who devote such a large amount of time to the paper continue to do so. With luck, the constitution and the strong commitment of the editors will allow the news section to develop into something much improved, though I think it is worth noting that the news section does an admirable job in a difficult climate, as I think any of those above would quickly discover were they to venture away from the judging and into the doing.
‘I think it is worth noting that the news section does an admirable job in a difficult climate, as I think any of those above would quickly discover were they to venture away from the judging and into the doing’
Nicely put.
Emily P: “In fact, the biggest conflict between the DSU and Palatinate over a story in recent history involved an edict from the University rather than the Union. Such is the burden of existing in a University community.”
Cf. Prof. Higgins writing in Palatinate last term: “Debate and independent thinking is what is expected of Durham University students. That is why DUS, our student debating society, is run by students independently of the University. It is also why DSU, which has an obligation to speak out on issues which concern our students, is also independent of the University. Even though the University supports DSU financially it does not, should not, and cannot, determine issues which DSU debates or the editorial content of student publications such as Palatinate.”
Chris W: Good in theory. Different in reality.
Emily P: And the reality, unless I am misinterpreting what you mean by a ‘university edict’, is that the university cannot tolerate news which might jeapordise its cosy financial relationship with a government that executes gay people, accuses journalists of being spies, is covertly developing nuclear weapons and has a proxy terrorist organisation that boasts of its desire to detonate them. The further reality is that, following a news story which they did not like on this subject, Prof. Higgins instructs us to publish his comment article about freedom of speech, just to be reminded how grateful we should be for their ongoing tolerance of our irresponsibile news values. In this article, he quite straightforwardly lies. But if I have got the wrong end of the stick, feel free to explain this ‘university edict’ in more detail.
I was actually referring to a different story, but you remind me of this- shall we say- difference of opinion, which bore remarkable similarity to the other one. Too many publication day dramas to keep up with.
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